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MARSHALL JAMES

Articles Posted: 89  Links Seeded: 489
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Is Ron Paul's gold standard idea dangerous?

Seeded on Thu Feb 2, 2012 9:40 AM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: Christian Science Monitor
politics, money, economy, jobs, corruption, gold, federal-reserve, bank, dollar, currency, inflation, gold-standard, central-banks
Seeded by Marshall James
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Even according to the government CPI increased 3% over the past 12 months. If one calculates CPI the old fashioned way as John Williams does on Shadowstats.com, price inflation is running at more than a 10% clip.

Coolican then enlists the services of UNR economist Elliott Parker, who says monetary matters were a mess before the steady hand of the Fed came to be in 1913. “It’s an absurd argument because before the Fed prices were unstable in the short term, and long term there was a long period of deflation,” says Parker.

Look at any historical long-term chart of the CPI and it’s a flat line until heading skyward starting in 1971. And what’s so bad about falling prices for a long period of time. That’s how we all become better off is when goods and services become more affordable through technological improvements.

The long depression Parker talks about (1870s to 1900) was actually a period of great prosperity. This period of the classical gold standard was marked by gently falling prices leading to increased productivity, raised living standards, and the first glimpses of globalization.

Jim Grant of Grant’s Interest Rate Observer writes, “you can look far and wide without finding a decade so ebullient, prosperous and — in so many ways —so modern as that of the 1880s.”

While prices fell, the US economy prospered. Industry expanded; the railroads expanded; physical output, net national product, and real per capita income all roared ahead. For the decade from 1869 to 1879, the real national product grew 6.8% per year and real-product-per-capita growth was described by Murray Rothbard, in his History of Money and Banking in the United States: The Colonial Era to World War II as “phenomenal” at 4.5% per year.

RELATED: The roar of Ron Paul: Five of his most unorthodox views on the economy.

And no there was no Fed back then to bail out Wall Street, so malinvestment was liquidated quickly and in turn the economy recovered quickly. So while Coolican says, “The world would have collapsed without aggressive action by the Federal Reserve.” The financial world needed to collapse and hasn’t been allowed to as the Fed continues to prop it up. Thus, the pain continues.

Coolican and Parker think falling prices create less incentive to produce. But they leave out the cost side. As costs fall through innovation, profit margins remain. All inflation does is hide inefficient producers. As for the worry of wages falling, it’s not the amount of your wages, but how much will your wages buy.

But the hundreds of years of evidence supporting gold money doesn’t convince Parker. He says, “But there is no evidence that getting rid of the Fed and replacing it with private banking along the lines of a gold standard would help the economy at all. None. In fact, the idea scares the hell out of me.”

Another reminder of the quality economics training that students are receiving at our nation’s universities.

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Marshall James

Using even the establishment’s numbers via “The Inflation Calculator” what cost a $1.00 in 1987 cost $1.89 in 2010. So the value of the dollar has been cut in half just since 1987 using the most conservative numbers. What’s stable and predictable about cutting the value of the dollar in half?

COH please

  • 3 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 9:41 AM EST
Lee-479062

OK, I guess I just don't understand how this reversion would be accomplished.

Total gold supply in the world is 186,060 tons. Converted to US tons, that equals 205,096 tons. That equals 410,193,306 pounds. In troy ounces (14.583 per pound), that is 5,981,848,981 ounces. Using $1600 (the approximate value of an ounce at the end of 2011), the entire world gold supply is worth $9,570,958,370,000.

Only 16.5% of the world gold supply is held by international organizations, central banks, and governments. That is equal to approximately $1,579,208,131,000 and most of that is not held by the US government.

At the end of 2011, the total money supply in the US was approximately 8 times the total gold for the world. The US holds about 9,000 tons of gold, or about 4.4%. That is about $70B.

Can someone explain to me how we would secure the gold to cover $11.8 Trillion or about 8 times the total world supply of gold? What am I missing?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/33242464/The_World_s_Biggest_Gold_Reserves?slide=16

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/h6.htm

  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 6:14 PM EST
Marshall James

what you are missing is that they have just printed more money that is worthless...the problem isnt that there isnt enough gold....its that we are holding worthless paper.

is that all it takes to prevent us from going on the gold standard?? say we were dead even right now.....would all the fed have to do is print up a billion worth of paper and devalue the dollar more so that there wouldnt be enough gold to cover the paper money??

I think you are missing the bigger picture here.

  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 6:48 PM EST
Lee-479062

What I am missing is the mechanics of how you can cover $12 Trillion with $70 Billion. What I am reading is idealism. There is nothing wrong with idealism, but to turn an ideal into a reality requires very concrete and rational steps.

For example, let us say that the dollar is overvalued by 100%. Each dollar is only worth 1 cent. If we then divide the $12 Trillion by 100, we still have $120 Billion. How do you cover that with $70 Billion?

What, precisely, are the steps required to return to the gold standard? Just as an easy starting place, determine what the money supply should be. Then you will know how much gold the US would have to buy to back that amount. Seems simple, right?

There is a slight problem with that. If we decided to chop the total money supply to $70 Billion to match the gold we have on hand, we still have in excess of $15 Trillion in debt. That would then be impossible to pay, since with a strengthened dollar, the value of that debt grows proportionately to the increase in the strength of the dollar. The US would immediately, and irreversibly, be bankrupt.

Once again, it gets down to the details of how you turn this dream into a reality. I'm willing to be convinced, but it has to be rational and it has to cover our GDP. At the end of 2011, that was approximately $15.3 Trillion. Even with a currency turnover rate of 10, you would still need $1.5 Trillion in gold.

    #1.3 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 7:55 AM EST
    Marshall James

    Its idealism that thinks you can just print money when you want and not have the system collapse eventually.

    I dont know where you got your gold figures from...but we had enough gold to cover the money at one time...it would be easy to change it.

    or maybe instead of per ounce...they could change the value to 1/2 ounce. dont forget silver also....

    the system we have no is bound to collapse as its based on stupidity....it will fail.....to do nothing would be worse than stupid.

      #1.4 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 8:16 AM EST
      Lee-479062

      MJ, I never advocated just printing money. However, returning to a gold or even a gold plus silver standard has practical application problems. There is not enough gold or silver in the world to cover it. And yes, the system we have now has been mightily abused.

      As for where I got my numbers, I provided links.

      If you want to advocate for this, fine. If you want to be taken seriously, demonstrate that you can overcome the obstacles to support your position.

        #1.5 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 8:38 AM EST
        Marshall James

        lee

        hey...I am no super economist.

        Ron Paul has put out his plan on how for it to happen......gradually. you allow competing currency...and by the process known as natural selection..the fed would be phased out. Would it be a harmless change?? nope...but it would be a positive one.

        and then maybe we would put an end to the endless wars on this planet.

        legal tender laws force the people to accept a worthless money system so that the rich can get much richer and stay in control.

        rid ourselves of the legal tender...and the people will figure this out on their own......it was already being used a little while ago on a smaller scale in my neck of the woods.

        the liberty dollar.....it was being used for monetary transactions here at some places...of course businesses were taking the coins and bills...they were backed by gold/silver.

        peace.

          #1.6 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 8:50 AM EST
          lincoln-1979

          Lee-

          You did bring up a legitimate question. To the best of my knowledge we would have to do one or all of 3 things before switching back to "honest" money.

          1) Declare national bankruptcy, forgive all debts (China/Saudi will want compensation in some form, no tariffs for a # of years? Tax breaks? other incentives..) *This is a worst case scenario here*

          2) Put a minimum of 1 trillion per year towards paying of debt, adjusting each year for inflation, 12-15 years total debt could be paid off if the federal Gov. Ceased to overspend starting today. (Yea right)

          3) Or we could just be pricks about it, declare all debts null and void, Declare the Federal Reserve as a traitorous institution with no constitutional authority to create a national debt in the first place.

          Dr. Paul, according to my understanding, wants to begin paying off the debt before starting a transition to an "honest" money backed by an American Resource.

          Keep in mind it doesn't need to be gold, any scarce resource will do. Rare earth minerals, Oil, Gold, things that are found here in this country, in limited amounts, to ensure that the Dollar has an actual worth.

          I haven't read or Heard Dr. Paul say he has any intention of NOT paying off the debt before transitioning to honestly backed currency.

            #1.7 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 9:03 AM EST
            Marshall James

            lincoln

            correct..he will pay down the debt.

              #1.8 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 9:15 AM EST
              Lee-479062

              Thanks, Lincoln. I am in solid support of paying off the debt and reducing spending. I believe that there should be no monies spent that are not covered by revenue. And I do not mean trying to increase revenue by increasing taxes. I would advocate reducing spending across the board by $2.5T immediately. The amount of economic growth generated by a serious committment to control spending would be astronomical. Revenues would grow and allow accelerated payment of the debt.

              The problem I have with gold or other rare earth materials used as backing for currency is that it requires that we actually acquire that material first. The second problem is that what is rare earth now may become common as grass nearly overnight. Additionally, if the material selected lost value due to lack of demand, the currency is greatly devalued.

              • 1 vote
              #1.9 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 9:17 AM EST
              Marshall James

              lee

              dont you wonder why none of our politicians except for Ron Paul think we actually need to decrease spending???

                #1.10 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 9:25 AM EST
                Lee-479062

                Please provide evidence to back that claim. I have heard both Newt Gringrich and Rick Santorum declare the need to reduce spending and eliminate deficits entirely. I'm not sure about Mitt Romney, since as far as I can tell, he is Obama lite.

                  #1.11 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 9:31 AM EST
                  Marshall James

                  they propose decreases in future spending...no one compares to Ron Pauls 1 trillion in the first year.

                  you can look at their platforms...I am not going to waste my time...he has brought it up in the debates...and they did not refute his claims.

                  peace.

                    #1.12 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 9:34 AM EST
                    lincoln-1979

                    No problem Lee, I have thought about the same thing. I am leery of Gold because the Market is completely cornered, border line monopoly. Which, would put us in the same place, a small group controlling our dollar's value.

                    Marshall brings up a good point too.

                    It is interesting to note that in the year 2000, Government spending was around 2 trillion per year, today, it is nearly 3 times that, around 6 trillion per year (that is what is reported, maybe double that, who knows). If Dr. Paul was able to reign back spending to those levels, we could pay off the entire debt in 4 years or so. One presidential term could pay off all debt if they applied themselves.

                    To put this in perspective, the war on terror, thus far, has ost us over 6 trillion in 10 years. We could have cut our debt in half rather than squandering it in a war of attrition.

                    Either way, we will eventually be forced to either abandon the dollar altogether or back it with something other than OIL from foreign nations.

                    The only thing that gives it any worth right now it that most of the worlds Oil is traded in US dollars, and many of the O.P.N.'s are switching to the Euro or are just bartering resources and technology.

                    See links in post #3.

                    Peace Y'all.

                      #1.13 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 9:45 AM EST
                      Reply
                      Better Careful

                      I think that most everything Ron Paul advocates for is dangerous. He's unrealistic and irrational to the extreme. The USA will never return to the 1800's. No can do. It's impossible.

                      Now can we move on?

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#2 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 9:55 AM EST
                      Marshall James

                      and why do you think that??

                      because you think that our dollar being worth 4 cents on the dollar that it was in 1913 is a good thing??

                      just curious.

                      • 5 votes
                      #2.1 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 9:57 AM EST
                      lincoln-1979

                      Better Careful-

                      Are you saying Dr. Paul has a time machine? Exactly how do you think we would revert to the 1800's?

                      Are you assuming that he will ban computers, TV and all other technology?

                      Expound please.

                      • 4 votes
                      #2.2 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 10:38 AM EST
                      Reply
                      lincoln-1979

                      The only reason our "fiat" currency has any worth is because it is backed by Oil. In effect, we have an "Oil standard", or Petro-Dollar currency, hence our obsession with protecting our "Strategic Interests", which are always oil producing nations.

                      Any Nation that even threatens to go off of the US dollar is invaded or is overthrown.

                      Iraq was switching to the Euro. SEE

                      Libya was switching to the Gold Dinar. SEE

                      Iran switched to the Euro after the Patriot act was signed into law. SEE

                      Yet countries with horrible human rights violations are our "Allies" as long as they trade oil in US Dollars.

                      • 4 votes
                      Reply#3 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 10:12 AM EST
                      Marshall James

                      very interesting isnt it?????

                      hmmmmmmmm

                      but remember...its for your own good...and remember to carry debt.....its for your own good too...it builds your credit rating.

                      • 4 votes
                      #3.1 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 10:14 AM EST
                      lincoln-1979

                      Here is a list of other countries that will be leaving the US dollar. SEE HERE

                      Note Venezuela, and the CIA failed a coup 2002. See HERE

                      The Ponzi scheme known as the Federal Reserve is doomed to collapse.

                      Be well Marshall.

                      PEACE!

                      PS: I am debt free! Never had a credit card or even a debit card, cash only! Never had a loan I couldn't afford and pay off early! I will have my home paid off in a total of 8 years, not 15 or 30! I live within my means, I make just over minimum wage, I have 2 kids and I have a yearly surplus to put towards their future. College will be paid in cash, no loans. As Rousseau once said, "Happiness is a surplus in the bank.

                      • 4 votes
                      #3.2 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 10:26 AM EST
                      lincoln-1979

                      Opps..

                      Rousseau said "Happiness is a surplus in the bank, credit is a slaves word."

                      • 3 votes
                      #3.3 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 10:33 AM EST
                      Charmonium

                      Here is a list of other countries that will be leaving the US dollar.

                      I guess our military will be busy in the coming years!

                      • 2 votes
                      #3.4 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 9:39 PM EST
                      Reply
                      Bad FishDeleted
                      Marshall James

                      deleted per request

                      didnt really want to...trying to get more comments and votes, people need to see this and understand the consequences to our actions.

                      peace.

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#5 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 10:33 AM EST
                      Bad Fish

                      Thanks Marshall i am re-commenting while trying to wake with this cup of strong coffee. This is a very important issue. I thought about linking this yesturday but sadly these issue get very little response. We rather call our favorite politician names.

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#6 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 10:40 AM EST
                      Marshall James

                      lol

                      I understand the lack of coffee issue..and yes calling names is much more fun...ughhhh

                      • 2 votes
                      #6.1 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 10:52 AM EST
                      Reply
                      Neale Osborn

                      Well, since the biggest socialist until Obama took us OFF the gold standard (to help keep us poor and in the control of government) it's the first step in repairing our economy.

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#7 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 5:38 PM EST
                      Charmonium

                      Wow, great article! It's nice to see that there is still some common sense in the world.

                      Monetary issues should be the number one concern for all Americans. It's unfortunate that Ron Paul is the only one discussing such important issues. The other candidates just don't seem to care about this issue.

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#8 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 9:37 PM EST
                      Marshall James

                      they dont care about a lot of things.

                      • 1 vote
                      #8.1 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 12:10 AM EST
                      Charmonium

                      The same goes for half the American population. I guess it's hard to become concerned about such issues when there's "more important" things going on (like football and American Idol).

                        #8.2 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 1:57 AM EST
                        Marshall James

                        yes the new season of AI just started...my wife is all into it already.

                        and why worry...we can just print more money if we need more.

                          #8.3 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 8:24 AM EST
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