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MARSHALL JAMES

Articles Posted: 89  Links Seeded: 489
Member Since: 10/2009  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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Military Chaplains Told Not To Read Criticism Of Contraceptive Mandate In Mass | Fox News

Seeded on Tue Feb 7, 2012 2:26 PM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: FOXNews.com
politics, islam, christianity, rights, muslims, liberty, tyranny, catholics
Seeded by Marshall James
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Army chaplains have been told not to read a letter in Masses on Sunday that expresses disapproval of a new regulation in the Obama administration's health care law because the language in the letter speaks too strongly against the commander in chief.

According to a senior Army official, Chief of Chaplains Donald Rutherford was asked not to let chaplains read the Jan. 26 letter sent by Archbishop Timothy P. Broglio because of the sentence that states: "We cannot -- we will not -- comply with this unjust law."

Related Video

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Chris Stirewalt discusses the Catholic vote with Ohio Rep. Tim Ryan-D.

"There was a worry that would be a call for civil disobedience," said a senior Army official.

In the letter, Broglio writes to pastors telling them that the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services rule that requires coverage of sterilization, abortifacients and contraception be included in virtually all health plans is a direct violation of the First Amendment allowing religious liberty.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/07/military-chaplains-told-not-to-object-to-contraceptive-mandate-as-senators-look/#ixzz1lj3l91Sn

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  • Public Discussion (55)
Marshall James

unjust is right.....government forcing morality upon the masses.

coh please

  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 2:27 PM EST
WBOB in Indiana

the original founders of the constitution have got to be doing 180's in their graves. This was the type of arrogance that caused the exodus from England to here in the 1st place.

  • 7 votes
#1.1 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 2:38 PM EST
Agent 57

unjust is right.....government forcing morality upon the masses.

really?? fail to see how.. appears the church is the one trying to dictate here...

Broglio writes to pastors telling them that the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services rule that requires coverage of sterilization, abortifacients and contraception be included in virtually all health plans is a direct violation of the First Amendment allowing religious liberty.

not in any way... he is free, as well his parishioners, to hold religious services and pray to any God he wishes,... his churches doctrine.. from Rome (isn't that in Italy??) should not be dictating any of the laws of our nation...

  • 6 votes
#1.2 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:15 PM EST
Marshall James

agent

so the government forcing insurance companies to cover contraceptives is not tyranny??

the government forcing the people to purchase insurance is not tyrann???

lmao...please give me your understanding of it....

  • 4 votes
#1.3 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:21 PM EST
Agent 57

many companies already cover contraceptives.. it's nothing new... has been arounda long time... and I couldn't care less what the Catholic Church thinks... imo it's the Catholic Church is trying to force pregnancies on it's female parishioners by demanding they not to use contraceptives... fail to see how the government is anywhere near as bad as that...

I have few issues with the health care law except it's not single payer.... I have huge issues with for profit health insurance providers who have been been deceiving and basically stealing from our citizens for a few decades...

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:44 PM EST
Sebbydad

no it is not tyranny. Not having insurance affects the rest of us. Covering contraception is also in the best interest, you'd think more people would be in favor of it as it should lead to fewer abortions.

I guess you'd see forcing companies to not dump toxins in drinking water as tyranny as well.

  • 6 votes
#1.5 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:50 PM EST
Marshall James

sebby

you are describing a socialist society...in a free society that is not the case.

so are you telling me you want a totalitarian state??? or a free state??

  • 2 votes
#1.6 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:39 PM EST
Sebbydad

do you have any understanding what socialism is? This is not government insurance. It is setting some rules for private insurance for minimum coverage.

If you think that this is a totalitarian state, why don't you live in China, or N. Korea for a bit and then get back to me.

  • 4 votes
#1.7 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:52 PM EST
mrsrachelm

Sorry folks, American citizens have every right to voice their opinions even if those words:

speaks too strongly against the commander in chief.

The last I knew our military personnel are still citizens too. Secondarily, Obama has no business telling the Church what it can and can't say to it's own parishioners simply because he doesn't like it. Two Constitutional rights are being trampled: Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion. One would think a Constitutional scholar would know that. In fact, I'm sure he -does- know that. He simply does give a @!$%#.

  • 4 votes
#1.8 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:15 PM EST
Sebbydad

They are citizens but they are also part of a military unit that relies on unit cohesion. This is not a religious verse that is being limited, this is a letter dealing with a business issue.

  • 4 votes
#1.9 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:20 PM EST
TruettCollins

No it is a letter telling them what they can and can not say from the pulpit....

  • 2 votes
#1.10 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 10:48 PM EST
Reply
Marshall James

I understand the religous right has used aggression and force on the people...but using it back on them is not right...and against what our country stands for.

this is tyranny and oppression

  • 5 votes
#2 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 2:40 PM EST
CMlawyer

Hmm... an imaginary world, where Pres. Obama reverses his stance, Catholic organizations are given freedom (which also means overruling all the state laws which already require this coverage for over 50% of US citizens), Catholic organizations stop covering birth control, Catholic organization employees have to choose between paying out of pocket and taking their chances, birth control useage slips, unwanted pregancies rise, Catholic organization employees are now faced with a choice about whether or not to have an abortion, or whether to give birth and maybe- horror of horrors- have a homosexual couple adopt, or go back to mega families... Or maybe we should look for a true separation of church and state, where churches no longer get any special treatment. Let them pay taxes, provide insurance (even at the church level, not just in their independent non-church businesses, like universities) and otherwise be regulated like the rest of us.

  • 5 votes
#2.1 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 2:45 PM EST
Marshall James

spin it any way you want.

a government that forces morality upon the people and takes away choice is tyrannical.

period.

  • 5 votes
#2.2 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:01 PM EST
mstanley2265

Applies to churches too...lest we forget...Jim Jones and The Peoples Temple.

  • 3 votes
#2.3 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:18 PM EST
Agent 57

but using it back on them is not right...and against what our country stands for.

I fail to see how the law is forcing anyone to do anything... Catholics are not forced to take a contraceptive nor use any of the services.. it appears to me the church is the one discriminating against American Citizens..

a government that forces morality upon the people and takes away choice is tyrannical.

seems the Church is the one forcing morality on it's parishioners... not the government... sounds like the church has an issue with it's parishioners not the government..

  • 5 votes
#2.4 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:18 PM EST
Sebbydad

So you would be in favor of overturning all of the abortion laws the religious right has passed? Ending all gay marriage bans?

No one is being forced to use contraception, but if you run a business and have employees and have to have insurance - you need to include this coverage. I think it sets up another argument for a public option.

  • 5 votes
#2.5 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:19 PM EST
Marshall James

sebby

already said the church has violated the rights of others.

forcing me to purchase insurance..and then be forced to pay for something that is against my beliefs is a violation of my rights....@!$%#...let alone forcing me to do anything.

that is the DEFINITION OF TYRANNY.

how in the hell can anyone argue for the government forcing you and me to purchase a good from a private company...and focing the private company to provide contraception.

it makes no sense whatsoever.

  • 5 votes
#2.6 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:24 PM EST
mstanley2265

or the opposite, private health insurance company ....blackmail, either pay their price for a policy or do without health care...wonder if they learned that from the mafia?

you do know that they are Anti-Trust Exempt right? They made sure that little provision was in place a long time ago.

  • 2 votes
#2.7 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:35 PM EST
Agent 57

and then be forced to pay for something that is against my beliefs is a violation of my rights....

I would figure it's part of a package and you can either use the service or not.... but not having it in the package would not change the price..

here's a tidbit.. when I was 45 I had a cataract in one eye, had it removed.. no issues... when I went to purchase private health insurance.. because I had previously had a cataract I was denied coverage if I should have another one... now who's got the racket going.... the cost wasn't any less for not having that service available...

  • 4 votes
#2.8 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:47 PM EST
Sebbydad

what right are you saying has been violated?

Forcing me to pay higher health care costs because you don't have insurance and your medical bills go unpaid is an infringement on me.

  • 4 votes
#2.9 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:52 PM EST
Marshall James

sebby

again...a problem with socialism..not freedom

and I would disagree on the costs....you add more costs to an insurance company...they sure as hell are not going to eat it.

  • 3 votes
#2.10 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:41 PM EST
Sebbydad

again, I ask that you provide what you think socialism is so I can have some idea of what you are talking about because this is nothing approaching socialism as defined in any dictionary I've read.

You can disagree on the cost all you like. The law has set that insurance companies actually have to use a certain percentage of premiums to actually provide care, this makes that easier on them. Not to mention the millions of more customers they get to have because of the mandate.

  • 4 votes
#2.11 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:55 PM EST
mstanley2265

no, they have to have a Profit and pay dividends to shareholders and those CEO bonuses not counting those great vacation errr sorry Conference meetings in Hawaii or another vacation spot. All because people get sick.

  • 3 votes
#2.12 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:55 PM EST
Marshall James

http://open.salon.com/blog/occams_taser/2010/02/12/insurance_is_socialism_therefore_insurance_is_evil

  • 2 votes
#2.13 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:30 PM EST
Marshall James

cant you see the huge holes in this?

  • 2 votes
#2.14 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:35 PM EST
Sebbydad

So you don't know what socialism is.

If you are against insurance as a concept go picket United Health Care.

  • 4 votes
#2.15 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:52 PM EST
lovemyplanet-400560

how in the hell can anyone argue for the government forcing you and me to purchase a good from a private company

It's not that they want the government to force them to do anything, it's that they want the government to force other people to do something. They want their own freedom, they just don't want you to have yours. (That goes for both the Left and the Right, unfortunately.)

  • 1 vote
#2.16 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 10:13 PM EST
Marshall James

yes you are right..thanks for the correction

  • 1 vote
#2.17 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 12:52 AM EST
Reply
reddirthippy

a government that forces morality upon the people and takes away choice is tyrannical.

Wasn't there a chocie? the Chaplain said tell them to mention it at mass and then if wanted to pick up a copy of the letter at the back.

  • 1 vote
Reply#3 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:26 PM EST
Marshall James

to me this is a bigger issue than the idiotic catholic church.

this is about the rights of every american.

government is taking away choice from us at every turn...and I am tired of it.

  • 4 votes
#3.1 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:29 PM EST
mstanley2265

Perhaps, the 'venue' has been overlooked. It is the US Military, no options for what is and isn't done when the order comes down. As it should be, as it will be. simple..

  • 1 vote
#3.2 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:46 PM EST
reddirthippy

What gets me contraception violates there morality but killing in war doesn't.

  • 3 votes
#3.3 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:28 PM EST
mstanley2265

It's called shoot back when you're shot at.

  • 3 votes
#3.4 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:38 PM EST
reddirthippy

It's called shoot back when you're shot at.

Ohh well of course everybody killed in a war was shooting guns.

    #3.5 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 10:55 AM EST
    Reply
    PattyNC

    We don't have to listen to the Archbishop, not all catholic people are military. I don't think any Chaplains saying mass is going read this to the men and women still over in a war zone.Or any where else

    And why would stuff about insurance be read at mass anyway. Flux news and Fundy flakery

    • 2 votes
    Reply#4 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 3:45 PM EST
    Vlad's dog

    And what does this issue have to do with the military?

    • 3 votes
    Reply#5 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:23 PM EST
    mstanley2265

    It was a slow day at Fox for something to complain about the Administration.

    sidenote: got your part of the poem for Valentine's day ready yet? hmm hmm

    • 2 votes
    #5.1 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:47 PM EST
    Vlad's dog

    Oh the pressure of art and love. :)

    • 1 vote
    #5.2 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:00 PM EST
    mstanley2265

    :) heh heh

      #5.3 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:26 PM EST
      Reply
      Borncorn

      I wonder what these right wingnuts think about the Muslim case here in Nebraska against the meatpackers. The Muslims want to shut down the lines twice a day so that they can face the west and pray. They say that that is their religious right. They were fired and have lost their case. So, Marshall James, what about their right to religious freedom? Is this another case of the Government trampling on the rights of its citizens?

      • 1 vote
      Reply#6 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:50 PM EST
      crispy2000

      If it were the government telling them they couldn't practice their religion, you might have a valid point. Shutting down the lines twice a day seems to go beyond "reasonable accommodation". Same if they asked the meat packer not to process pork.

      • 2 votes
      #6.1 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 8:27 PM EST
      lovemyplanet-400560

      the Muslim case here in Nebraska against the meatpackers

      They knew this was not a Muslim country when they moved here. They are free to practice their religion, just not to disrupt a private business or shut it down negatively effecting its ability to make money.

        #6.2 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 10:21 PM EST
        lovemyplanet-400560Deleted
        Reply
        Robert in Ohio

        Marshall

        This sounds eerily close to government interference in the exercise of religion

        Isn't there a prohibition against that in the constitution?

        What about the catholic service men and women that attend mass off base?

        • 3 votes
        Reply#7 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:51 PM EST
        mstanley2265

        It's the Military, Robert, can't have a military doing what they want to do and civilians control the US military. Not the other way around.

        • 1 vote
        #7.1 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:57 PM EST
        Robert in Ohio

        mstanley

        I am a veteran and totally understand that soldiers (sailors, airmen and marines) do not publicly challenge the policies of the CINC or disparage him

        But this is the government telling a priest what they can preach about on Sunday.

        That is as they say overreach in my opinion and it certainly will not stop the discussion amongst Catholics and other people of faith who are against the policy and happen to be in the military

        Thanks for the feedback

        • 2 votes
        #7.2 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:26 PM EST
        mstanley2265

        It's the gov't telling the military chaplins not to read the letter regarding a Policy of the Catholic Church at Mass. A Catholic Mass in a Military setting does not have to include the Policies of the Catholic Church as it pertains to Civilian hospitals, insurance policies etc.

        A non starter when a Church Any Church starts impeding in a military setting their writings regarding policies etc applicable to and in a Civilian setting. The military personnel can get a copy of the letter and read it off duty. That is what is being stated. Obvious and always has been.

        Our Nation is Secular, government and military...., all these churches getting into government issues is getting mighty tiresome. And to come in with ..do this in our military too? It takes a whole lot of gall thinking that'll work.

        • 1 vote
        #7.3 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:30 PM EST
        Robert in Ohio

        mstanley

        Thanks for the feedback

        Good points

        I guess I see the issue from the other side of the fence.

        I see the government getting involved (inappropriately) in the conduct of a Catholic mass and in telling a priest what he can and cannot say.

        Thanks for the perspective.

        • 2 votes
        #7.4 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:37 PM EST
        mstanley2265

        Robert, years back, a Catholic priest would not even be asked to read a letter like that from anyone short of the Pope at a Mass. Even the Pope wouldn't put in such a secular issue. I know I attended enough of them. For them to start with this is way beyond what I ever learned that the Church would do. They kept their secular issues Separate from the Mass. The Mass is sacrosanct and not to be used in a political way.

        Now After the Mass when church was dismissed, the priest could take off his vestments and in another part of the church could discuss secular issues.

        So it's not just a matter of the US gov't, it's a matter of the sanctity of the Mass and the Sermon which is a Part of the Mass. Neither are to be used for secular purposes. This is going to make a whole lot of Catholics upset when they get back into thinking about it. A whole lot

          #7.5 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 9:01 PM EST
          Robert in Ohio

          mstanley

          Priests have been reading communications from the Vatican, the Bishop etc forever

          And the the church does not see this as a secular issue as clearly as you seem to - this is not see as a political message but rather as a call to the believers to stand up for and support the teachings and laws of the church,

          The government telling a priest (or minister or padre or whatever) what they can or cannot say in the confines of their church and within their teaching to their congregations is IMO wrong

          I understand and respect your position and will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

          • 2 votes
          #7.6 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 8:21 AM EST
          mstanley2265

          Two separate..where they can say in church....one in the world...the other in the military. All churches get a wide latitude in what they say ...in the world ...from the pulpit....and tax free too.

          The other in the military...different venue...open That door for Religions to preach from the pulpit to Our military...think about it...Quakers - pacifists Islamist-not pacifists etc. It is the Why I am against it more than what the belief is. Military personnel have a duty, first to the US, then when off duty to their beliefs, when the two come in contact is where Chain of Command has to draw the line. As in the past...and present .....and future.

          • 1 vote
          #7.7 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 10:57 AM EST
          Robert in Ohio

          mstanley

          Surely you are not so naive as to thnk that all military personnel go to church on base?

          The credo we lived by in the years I served were Duty Honor Country -- Duty and Honor both include my faith and family. The first two pillars provide the strength and commitment to fulfill the third.

          I understand your point on this one and will just have ot respectfully agree to disagree with you on this point. I do not think that the government should have any say in what is said from the pulpit (whether in a military chapel or a cathedral downtown) and you think it is alright.

          Thanks a lot for the back and forth

          • 3 votes
          #7.8 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 1:34 PM EST
          Reply
          David-1830107

          This a great grey line. In the Military you do not have the same rights as a civilian... When people realize this this order is a no brainer.

          • 4 votes
          Reply#8 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:10 PM EST
          bestquest

          Witnessed a totally different army attitude at Fort Hood in mid nineties with respect to another religion practiced there by some soldiers.

          As of 15 months ago, this particular other religion still has army attitude of total hands off.

          Those orders, instructions, principals, came from higher up than the pentagon.

          • 1 vote
          Reply#9 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 9:19 PM EST
          bestquest

          I am hopeful that this tempest is totally resolved within 48 to 72 hours. Otherwise, it may take on a life of its own, become so very devisive, that bad feelings will remain for a long time.

          Heck, in an earlier century, a few soldiers requested an hours chapel time after lunch on a certain day. Another soldier had been issued a four day pass to observe his holy days.

          The sargeant came back and provided the time off in exchange for us working Saturday morning, to which we readily agreed. He even showed up and worked with us Saturday morning. This was all genial, not any in your face demand by the soldiers. Amicable. I did not think the army was agin us at all. Rather, there was respect for us and our religion.

          • 1 vote
          Reply#10 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 9:39 PM EST
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